Curse

FalconDance · Apr 20, 2009, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowOiL

I read the Teen rating when I bought the game... I thought it would be fairly safe...

Age 13... I qualify (nearly 4x)... Violence... I can stand chopping up a bad guy or two... That is ALL my box had on it...Just violence, not the crude language that is sometimes coupled with teen ratings... it did say gaming experience may change.. but it never said that 13y/o boys would have to listen to things like teabagging in pre ascalon.

Offhand I can't find our copies of Prophecies but I did find the ones of Factions. One is labeled "Rating Pending" (pre-order copy), one is marked "T- Use of Alcohol, Violence" and the last is marked "T - Suggestive Themes, Use of Alcohol, violence". We (obviously) have multiple copies of all the campaigns (and thus they are scattered over three desks and rooms).

The terms of use, as referenced above, clearly state Anet knows people will be people, unfortunately, and use bad language on occasion. You signed the agreement, so unless you did not read it fully, you acknowledged that immature language would likely be used. Of course, the better solution would have been to go to guildwars.com or research *exactly* what a T rating meant, but hind sight is always 20-20.

LowOiL · Apr 20, 2009, 12:57 AM // 00:57

You may not post or link to any sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive imagery or content.

That's enforced, I am happy.

FalconDance · Apr 20, 2009, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

.....If they have not changed the ESRB of the game they are responsible to ensure they act within the scope of the rating. They are not doing so. They are required by the expectation of the advertised rating to accept crude humor and strong language at the level defined by the ESRB. When they begin punishing people for crude humor or strong language in accord with the ESRB they have committed fraud.....

This, to a point, is true. The rating context:

Quote:

TEEN
Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

The problem is, the user agreement we all sign (because if we don't, we don't get to play!), specifically says:

Quote:

NC Interactive reserves the right to enforce any or all of these rules at its sole discretion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

ESRB is supposed to enforce their ratings. It is time we call them and ensure that they do. If ANet is not willing to abide by the rating they sold the game under then they should be "banned" by ESRB, so to speak.

Effectively, this allows them to enforce anything they so choose as long as it falls within the EULA and the original ERSB rating. If the content of the game does not violate the rating, there is nothing the ERSB enforcement board can do - it is the players bringing in vulgarity and immaturity, not the game content itself, and the enforcement of policy then falls on Anet.

LowOiL · Apr 20, 2009, 01:22 AM // 01:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

The Terms of Use we all sign(ed):

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...-agreement.php

The "Modified Rules of Conduct" (updated 2 April 2009, btw)

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...sofconduct.php

The New and Improved Naming Policy (updated 2 April 2009)

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...ing_policy.php

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...-agreement.php

Some language is inappropriate (Anet does screen or have the right to screen), Anet does not prescreen text displayed... you may get it displayed on your screen. Does not equate that you are to take extremely bad language as just an occupational hazard. It also does not prove I made a wrong decision based on box ratings either.

I have no problem with people cursing.. if they do it right, my maxed chat filter gets it. No problem. But discussions on eating fecal matter just goes beyond what a person should have to endure. Spell your curse words correctly, and F away all day and I could care less. But some things are like screaming Fire in a movie theater, nobody should be forced to listen to it in a social setting of any decorum.

EDIT... will have to respond later, tornado sirens going off and gotta get kids to basement.

Savio · Apr 20, 2009, 02:57 AM // 02:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Yes, I do. The ESRB is a voluntary program where corporations agree to grant the consumer a set expectation of what level of maturity and kind of behavior may occur while using their product.

Then why do you insist that the ESRB rating sets what content shall or shall not be in a product? It doesn't. A game that is rated Mature for sexual content does not necessarily have nor is required to have intense violence or strong language. Arenanet could very well have Rurik making poop jokes as it's within the Teen rating, but they don't have to.

But aside from that, in the link you provided:

Quote:

Online Rating Notice

Online-enabled games carry the notice "Online Interactions Not Rated by the ESRB." This notice warns those who intend to play the game online about possible exposure to chat (text, audio, video) or other types of user-generated content (e.g., maps, skins) that have not been considered in the ESRB rating assignment.

Online user-generated content isn't covered by the ESRB. That would include character names.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Further, yes, the rules of my nation apply when you deal with me in my nation.

"Congress shall make no law...abridging the freedom of speech." Arenanet isn't the U.S. Congress last I checked.

Raccoon · Apr 20, 2009, 03:13 AM // 03:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

You really don't get what ESRB ratings are and how they function. Of course, you also insisted that the U.S. Constitution applies to Arenanet.

I just got banned for making "Altheas Giant Monster Cawk". I think I'll rename it to "Altheas Giant Monster C A W K". After that, just "Altheas Giant C A W K". And there are probably a thousand other variations I could use after that.

They don't make people delete characters, Arenanet would have much more trouble keeping players if they started deleting characters for violations.

I agree that the characters should be renamed or deleted, but booting people from the game over something so insignificant is pathetic. Like I said, it would help if they focused some more of that banning energy on bots and scammers, rather then trying to be international peace holders.

It's an mmorpg. People will be offended by the grass been too green.

Snow Bunny · Apr 20, 2009, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Most kids 13 years and older will know a bit about cursing, however juvenile it is. If you are offended by what they write, put your language filter on. It's there for a reason.

Those of you attempting to use the ESRB rating system as justification for more regulation are consistently failing to recognize the glaring "Online Interactions Not Rated" segment of their policy, which means they can't (and rightfully so) control what will be said.

The ESRB has no business in what is said in ArenaNet's game between players. They can't regulate it legally. They're there simply to label the content of ArenaNet's contribution to their own game.

If you can't take mature language used by immature people, you yourself should grow up. The amount of morality-wielding here is pathetic. A mature person would realize that those using the crass language are themselves immature.

If your kids are below 13, they shouldn't be playing this game. Finally, anything your kids see/hear in this game is going to be comparable to what their friends and bullies throw around by the handball court, if you get my drift.

Tullzinski · Apr 20, 2009, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

While the Naming Policy is new, they're just a more detailed set of guidelines that already exist in the User Agreement. There's nothing new about how Support is enforcing the User Agreement. What has happened is that issuing the Naming Policy has directed attention to these issues.

Regina:

Where is this the escalating suspension system actually posted? It is referenced but not outlined anywhere that I can find. It would be nice if the community could be informed about what system they are being held to. When I put escalating suspension system in the search on the GW website this is all I get:

If a character name is reported to us and is in violation of the Naming Policy, the account will be blocked and receive a mark, and therefore will be inaccessible for whatever period of time is called for within the escalating suspension system. This means that the character and all the inventory items and attainments associated with it will be inaccessible during this time and until the character has been renamed. For the first offense, you will be required to rename your character upon your next login. For the second offense, we will assign you a new name and your account will again be marked. We may also take further action at our discretion.

While it touches on some items, it really not very informative on others:

A period of time is referenced but not given for offenses.
Marking of the account is also mentioned are these forever or do they expire over time? (found where they expire but not timeframe is given)

Can people report themselves if they have characters in violation and receive little to no suspension time since they are attempting to bring their accounts within the naming policy? There really is no incentive to clean up once account/s under the current policy without adversly affecting your own account. Instead of fixing the character people may not play the character/hide it for fear of being suspended.

It would be useful to have the option to clean up your own house instead of waiting for someone to report you.

I realize there may be some who would attempt to use this just to have the ability to rename a character whose name they do not like, and to prevent this from occuring perhaps a policy can be in place if the submitted name does not violate the naming policy then they would be suspended for abuse of the reporting system. Another option would be to allow this self reporting for a limited period of time. 1 month for example to limit any hit on the support staff. Considering some of the information that has been expanded upon recently concerning the policy an amnesty period for cleaning up one's own house and not waiting to be reported by someone who is offended could help alot.

Fitz Rinley · Apr 20, 2009, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

...this allows them to enforce anything they so choose as long as it falls within the EULA and the original ERSB rating. If the content of the game does not violate the rating, there is nothing the ERSB enforcement board can do - it is the players bringing in vulgarity and immaturity, not the game content itself, and the enforcement of policy then falls on Anet.

That is just it. What they are enforcing does not follow the advertised rating. What they are enforcing is contrary to what they do. The Damned Cleric is more of a violation than say Bad-ass. This term is normal in society, and used regularly to mean a capable and assertive person. But lets say someone named themselves Assertive Assassasin; how many asses in that? And if the person wants to be offended, as these people do Want to be offended, they are going to complain about the name having too many asses in it. Then there is Frostbite, obvioulsy GW named him to mean Chilled-member-of-the-male anatomy, because bite appears in the name and in French bite means a member of the male anatomy or something. So, based on their naming policy they have violated their own rules. They have named the primary enemy in Nightfall after an old world power. Their lack of knowledge on the derivation is unimportant. They have set themselves up to decide whose religion has value and whose does not since they are the determiners of whether or not a religous figure is major or important enough to protect or not. (It is nice to know the World Council of Churches has such an august body to check with for this information. Perhaps, Native Americans can get their religions and nationalities recognized by the UN if they pay ANet enough.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

The ESRB has no business in what is said in ArenaNet's game between players. They can't regulate it legally. They're there simply to label the content of ArenaNet's contribution to their own game.

LowOil and those in that camp have a chat filter. It is so picky that it takes letters out of the middle of words for no reason. The other day, PU was removed from a regular everyday word in a normal message. I have no idea what language has PU as a derogatory word and don't care. It is not our language and our spelling is bad enough in chat without GW making normal everyday typing worse. Further, They themselves are Hypocrites by banning name elements they themselves use, by violating their own policy. They punish players for things they violate themselves. Why? Because ANY person on the planet can look at the screen and say, "Well, letters 14839 look like they mean a bad word if transliterated a certain way into the alphabet I use. That player must be punished/banned/terminated!"

And if you read, it is not about getting them to enforce ESRB rating against players, it is exactly the opposite. The rating states Crude Humor and Strong Language may occur in the game. What they are doing is advertising a rating they only follow elements they want out of and then catering to the intolerant using it as a means of attacking others.

Once they start requiring us to learn the bad words in every language in the world where they might have a player just so we won't step on anyone's toes there is a problem. What are there now, 193 nations in the UN and how many languages in them. I already pointed out there are more than 20 languages spoken buy groups of 200,000 or more just in the US. I have already pointed out that the Hispanic male name Chachi is a reference to a part of male anatomy in Korean. So, no Hispanics are permitted to use the name Chachi because Koreans are allowed to be intolerant of Spanish heritage and culture.

When the ESRB states there can be Crude Humor or Strong Language in the game, then the moderators should accept that. They may indeed ask someone not to be a jerk, assault people, etc. There is a profound difference between condemning a person and condemning a situation. The diference between saying D@##-you and D@##-it. One is a personal assault and the other is not. But for ANet, Anklebiter is an immoral name for a pet warthog because obviously everyone knows that Bite is a slang word, in a foreign language they don't speak or interact with Ever.

So, no they are not to observe the ESRB to increase censorship, but to back down from this "Everyone should talk nice for the 5 year olds" syndrome they have suddenly caught.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Yes, I do. The ESRB is a voluntary program where corporations agree to grant the consumer a set expectation of what level of maturity and kind of behavior may occur while using their product.

Then why do you insist that the ESRB rating sets what content shall or shall not be in a product?

Because they advertise this by placing the label on their game. No it does not require them to place violence in a game simulating gambling. If there is violence depicted in a game about gambling then they may not punish the players for depicting the same violence. This is what they are doing. Worse, they are holding players accountable for languages all over the world in the entire free market of humanity. If someone speaking Haisla decide that wart is a pejorative reference in their langauge, then a player may not have the name Warthog as part of their name. This language is spoken by about 200 people total in North America, but if they play and are offended by some element of someones name who does not speak that language then the offender must be punished and their name changed. This is in violation of the ESRB which permits offensive or crude language at the Teen level. It is also unfair because it punishes players for things they cannot be expected to know. The word bite, whether in Frostbite or in Anklebiter, does not meet the standard of being prurient by itself. There is no prurient value in Byte. These are banned for name content.

Quote:

Online user-generated content isn't covered by the ESRB. That would include character names.

Correct. ANet violates their own rules with the content they present, while at the same time punishing players for using the same expressions. Further, ANet has a right to prevent hostile assaults upon persons. Persons and ANet do not have a right to attack people for using everyday terms and normal language because some dipwad wants to be offended or finds being offended is a good weapon to take out an opponent. If the call tag for Kaon had been "SukaDys" then there would be call for causing them to rename, and maybe take a couple days off. Since the offense was taken in a language they did not speak by someone who found it "offensive" for personal benefit, ANet was dead wrong in banning the guild for the call tag "SuKa" - which was out of a different American language, Ebonics. When ANet banned a person for the name Mr. White, a film character in a cult classic movie (Reservoir Dogs) which was the name of the Guild, they were dead wrong. There was nothing offensive in that name. There was something offensive in the person who took offense being ignorant and using their ignorance as a weapon to be intolerant.

I repeat, this should be the cornerstone of their policy:

Quote:

This is a community of members from various traditions, various philosophies, and various levels of creativity. Participation in this community requires that you be tolerant of those differences. If you find something is crass, crude, or tactless you are not obligated to support that person. You are free to move to a different district. You are free to party with someone else. However, we promote toleration of those things which do not cross the legal boundaries of acceptability in the nation where the player resides.

They should only apply the standards used in the nation where in the player resides. Everyone else should Deal With It. If someone of Vietnamese descent wants to use their family name of Phuoc, even in the old transliteration of Fuk, then they should be allowed to and not treated as something dirty and socially unacceptable merely because they have a different ethnic background.

FalconDance · Apr 20, 2009, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullzinski

Regina:

Where is this the escalating suspension system actually posted? It is referenced but not outlined anywhere that I can find. ......

You have to scroll all the way down to the bottom of the Terms page, then follow the link to the Naming Policy page then click on the Conducts Breaches link within a paragraph. I'll make it a bit easier for you

.

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...d_outcomes.php

No where did I read how long each ban is set for, but the commonly held perception is first offense, 3 days, 2nd offense 2 weeks and third strike you're out.

So, if someone reports you, even maliciously (and gets away with it, because we all know it happens more often than not), your account then has a mark against it regardless of merit - by Anet's policy. That is wrong.

FalconDance · Apr 20, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio
Then why do you insist that the ESRB rating sets what content shall or shall not be in a product?

The ERSB does not dictate what content is in the game, they assign a consumer rank according to the content present at submission by the game's owner/maker/promoter, in this case Anet. There is a vast difference.

Anet made a game, Guild Wars. They submitted the content to ERSB for rating before marketing as required by law. ERSB ranked the content according to the level of several factors - language, violence, adult themes, etc. A rating was then assigned based upon that content. Legally there is nothing the ERSB enforcement people can do about violations of the rating unless Anet significantly changes the content to reflect an entirely different rating from the original. The content that players bring into game such as vulgar language is outside the rating and does not fall within the ERSB's bailiwick.

And since they (Anet) wrote in their own little clause stating they can enforce or change just about any policy they want to at any time with no warning whatsoever - and we all 'signed it - there's not a lot anyone can do except complain and hope they listen.

pumpkin pie · Apr 20, 2009, 03:01 PM // 15:01

For a teen rated game, i have to say, that the language is far worse in GW compare to Requiem-Bloodymare, practically no one uses foul language in that game in the few months that i've been playing it, and no one ever try to say anything religious or political or racist in that game ever. lol, but GW seems to have a lot of people wanting to voice their political and religious and race issue.

lol, if you want a game wihtout cussing and "creative names" choose one that cater to Mature players rofl. teen needs babysitters! rofl. when will they grow up.

FalconDance · Apr 20, 2009, 03:11 PM // 15:11

The rating of the game is the content of the game itself, not the content people bring into it such as language. I.e. the actual storyline and narration of GW does not contain overt vulgarity - the players bring it. The rating pertains to the violence level (hey, killing monsters is still killing), use of alcohol (self-explanatory), etc.

There are jerks around the globe who like nothing more than to act like arses. It's what they do, how they define themselves. In most instances, it's throwing our cultural slurs, political bombs or downright vulgar language. There's nothing wrong with discussions on religion or politics or culture, and I've been glad to see several in outposts that were very mature, open and informative without denigrating into schoolyard bully tactics or rudeness. But let's face it, not all people are very mature (and I'm not thinking in chronology, either!).

Tullzinski · Apr 20, 2009, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconDance

You have to scroll all the way down to the bottom of the Terms page, then follow the link to the Naming Policy page then click on the Conducts Breaches link within a paragraph. I'll make it a bit easier for you

.

http://www.guildwars.com/support/leg...d_outcomes.php

No where did I read how long each ban is set for, but the commonly held perception is first offense, 3 days, 2nd offense 2 weeks and third strike you're out.

So, if someone reports you, even maliciously (and gets away with it, because we all know it happens more often than not), your account then has a mark against it regardless of merit - by Anet's policy. That is wrong.

Isn't that the paragraph I already have in italics in my post?

Have to agree with you that this is wrong especially when it was malicious. I found where it is stated that marks expire after a period of time but once again that time period is not given.

Is a 72 hour period a "RELATIVELY BRIEF" suspension when used in conjunction with the following statement that if you slip up once in a great while you will not suffer dire consequences. That 72 hours could wipe out a whole weekend event if you get reported at the wrong time.

The suspension periods are designed to be effective and fair. The first mark results in a relatively brief suspension; players who slip up once in a great while will not suffer dire consequences. The suspension periods do scale up, though, in order to better handle those players who are in regular breach of the Rules of Conduct. For them, the account marks can add up to weeks of suspension.

cthulhu reborn · Apr 20, 2009, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

Je n'ai pas dit que vous avez fait. Vous avez dit:

Noms anglais sur un serveur anglais. Nous, les américains, sommes multilingues, multiculturels et n'avons aucune langue nationale encore. Il y a 20 langues que 200,000 ou plus personnes parlent dans mon pays. Notre héritage est chaque héritage. Nous sommes les réfugiés de tout le monde. Si nous disons l'américain seulement sur les serveurs américains, donc nous nions l'héritage mondial. Nous devons dire, "Non". Nous devons dire, "Tolérez ce qui distingue de vous. Tolérez ce qui a de la valeur et le bon sens à d'autres. Tolérez leur droit d'exprimer le sacré, le politique, la personnelle, le culturel." Nous devons le dire non seulement parce qu'il y a seulement un serveur pour notre continent, mais aussi parce que la paix viendra seulement de cette tolérance. Si nous ne tolérons pas le différent dans nos jeux, nous ne tolérerons jamais de nos âmes le différent dans nos vies.

(C'est beaucoup d'années depuis que j'étudie le français. Pardonnez s'il vous plaît mes fautes.)

You are kinda funny. Most Americans I know are not multilingual. But aside from that, I am not advocating that all Americans need to choose English as their gaming language. I've always been surprised that there are no Spanish speaking servers in the US districts because there are pretty much more Spanish speakers than English speakers in most of the US as far as I know.I am not even talking about server languages anyway because we can travel freely between language servers. I am simply talking about an account language. With that you can go to any server with that.

In the end, you still don't address the point I made which is that I feel it's unfair that my character and pet names now have to be judged for political correctness in more and more languages. That to me is wrong when it comes to an indiscriminate blacklist as there seems to be now. See, people always shout about their language needing to be respected but by imposing too many rules now it's my culture that's being disrespected.

I find it disrespectful to myself that I cannot use the word "bite" which is a perfectly fine word in English and as far as I know is not considered profanity in any English dictionary nor has it been removed from any of those dictionaries but Anet puts it on the blacklist because of the French language?...If that's doesn't seem bizarre to you or Anet then I am sorry but that's just way out there.

Anet wants a naming policy? Fair enough, but as an English speaking gamer I want my English language to be respected just the same. I full well understand I cannot use words like d*ck, c*nt or the likes but don't tell me as an Enlish user that I cannot use a perfectly normal word because some other language has it as a "bad word". Sorry that doesn't jive.

Now, if someone abuses any loophole in the rules and makes an English sounding name specifically to annoy the French or whoever then there may be grounds for censorship but not as indiscriminately as a blacklist, which to me is simply a matter of laziness or cost saving from Anet.

I'll live without the use of the word bite...Apparently Biatch was not a problem...go figure.

All in all the blacklist is too long and the methods Anet use for temp bans and such (if I understand it correctly you can get a temp ban when 2 or more people report your name WITHOUT there being an investigation first, which is sick if you think about it) are rather crude and I think the whole "feeling offended" thing is being abused at least as much as people finding loopholes for character names.

My guess is that Anet don't have the funds (or the will to invest them) to make the blacklist shorter which may mean more work for customer support and perhaps that's a reality we have to accept if that's true. But in principle I think it's wrong to sell out your own culture because you are overreacting to the needs of others who perhaps shout louder about it. As we say in my country "the loudmouths own half the world" and I believe Anet has let the pendulum swing too far in the other direction now, perhaps because they are trying to be too considerate.

FalconDance · Apr 20, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

In the end, you still don't address the point I made which is that I feel it's unfair that my character and pet names now have to be judged for political correctness in more and more languages. That to me is wrong when it comes to an indiscriminate blacklist as there seems to be now. See, people always shout about their language needing to be respected but by imposing too many rules now it's my culture that's being disrespected.

I find it disrespectful to myself that I cannot use the word "bite" which is a perfectly fine word in English and as far as I know is not considered profanity in any English dictionary nor has it been removed from any of those dictionaries but Anet puts it on the blacklist because of the French language?...If that's doesn't seem bizarre to you or Anet then I am sorry but that's just way out there.

This is exactly what most of us are trying to say! WHY should we have to be judged by every other language spoken when naming our characters, considering acronyms for our guilds and chatting? And that question is the same whether you speak English, French, Swahili or whatever.

If the word "bite" means something naughty in French, then I'll do my darnedest not to have my pet out when questing with a Frenchman who might possibly be offended at some unknown point in time. And immature people use the phrase "bite me" to mean something different than "please take a nibble". Does that mean the word itself if to be banned because it is sometimes used as childish slang?

The entire policy seems a bit arbitrary. No one has yet to say why the word "butt" is accepted by GW but "ass" is banned. They both refer to the same piece of anatomy. Further, one can even be a type of animal!

"Being or feeling offended" is highly subjective. Many things that offend one person do not even register on another's list. Why, then, does it follow that a game try to cater to the possible rather than the probable in the naming policy? Yes, overt vulgarity and obscenity should be banned, I think we all agree. Overt attempts at denigration of others (racial slurs, etc) should be disallowed, I think we all agree. "Cutsey" (which aren't really that cute) attempts at getting around the policy should be changed - biatch is clearly an example yet it is allowed. Not that there's anything really wrong with the word, but if you don't allow b*tch, then don't allow biatch which is clearly meant as the same darned thing!

The sentence in the policy that no name can be the name of a real person is *ludicrous* since that is nigh impossible to achieve! If I wish to use my real name as my character, will Anet ban me? What if someone's favorite (or hated) great uncle's maiden aunt had the same name I just used for my character, and that someone had an unpleasant flashback and reported me for violation of policy? Should I be banned?

Again, if the naming policy is implemented in character creation, it would eliminate much of this problem. If he!! is inappropriate, then it should not be allowed from the outset, yet I see many names with it incorporated. If "lord" refers to a major religious figure (and it does), then it should not be allowed at character creation - although that is just assinine since "lord" is an honorary title of landed gentry or nobleman. If "bite" is so highly offensive - and apparently it is to Anet since it's not allowed - then they'd best get changing Frostbite and several other similarly "offensive" names in their own game.

Language is very fluid by nature. Why Anet has suddenly decided that it needs to try and solidify and codify it is beyond comprehension.

Red Sonya · Apr 20, 2009, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Quote:

The problem is, the user agreement we all sign (because if we don't, we don't get to play!), specifically says:
Quote:
NC Interactive reserves the right to enforce any or all of these rules at its sole discretion.

Not a problem to me and I'd wager the majority of players, just must be a problem for you and those that would abuse the system or cry foul everytime someone spanks them.

LowOiL · Apr 20, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fitz Rinley

LowOil and those in that camp have a chat filter. It is so picky that it takes letters out of the middle of words for no reason. The other day, PU was removed from a regular everyday word in a normal message. I have no idea what language has PU as a derogatory word and don't care.

And if you read, it is not about getting them to enforce ESRB rating against players, it is exactly the opposite. The rating states Crude Humor and Strong Language may occur in the game. What they are doing is advertising a rating they only follow elements they want out of and then catering to the intolerant using it as a means of attacking others.

Once they start requiring us to learn the bad words in every language in the world where they might have a player just so we won't step on anyone's toes there is a problem. What are there now, 193 nations in the UN and how many languages in them. I already pointed out there are more than 20 languages spoken buy groups of 200,000 or more just in the US. I have already pointed out that the Hispanic male name Chachi is a reference to a part of male anatomy in Korean. So, no Hispanics are permitted to use the name Chachi because Koreans are allowed to be intolerant of Spanish heritage and culture.

When the ESRB states there can be Crude Humor or Strong Language in the game, then the moderators should accept that. They may indeed ask someone not to be a jerk, assault people, etc. There is a profound difference between condemning a person and condemning a situation. The diference between saying D@##-you and D@##-it. One is a personal assault and the other is not. But for ANet, Anklebiter is an immoral name for a pet warthog because obviously everyone knows that Bite is a slang word, in a foreign language they don't speak or interact with Ever.

You say "Pu" is filtered, I saw no such filter when I typed "punk".

Also as I pointed out, The ESRB rating did NOT say Crude Humor and Strong Language whatsoever. ESRB ratings give "Content Descriptors" which list items that resulted in their rating. The front of the box gives the rating and the back of the box gives the descriptors. As I pointed out and posted, it did NOT include strong language or Crude Humor in the descriptor, it ONLY listed Violence - Scenes involving aggressive conflict. May contain bloodless dismemberment.

Just because it was rated Teen did not mean the game included every descriptor which gave a Teen rating, far from it, it put in descriptors to exactly say what content the purchaser was to expect in the game.

Here is a list of possible descriptors that the ESRB uses.

ESRB Content Descriptors

* Alcohol Reference - Reference to and/or images of alcoholic beverages
* Animated Blood - Discolored and/or unrealistic depictions of blood
* Blood - Depictions of blood
* Blood and Gore - Depictions of blood or the mutilation of body parts
* Cartoon Violence - Violent actions involving cartoon-like situations and characters. May include violence where a character is unharmed after the action has been inflicted
* Comic Mischief - Depictions or dialogue involving slapstick or suggestive humor
* Crude Humor - Depictions or dialogue involving vulgar antics, including “bathroom” humor
* Drug Reference - Reference to and/or images of illegal drugs
* Fantasy Violence - Violent actions of a fantasy nature, involving human or non-human characters in situations easily distinguishable from real life
* Intense Violence - Graphic and realistic-looking depictions of physical conflict. May involve extreme and/or realistic blood, gore, weapons and depictions of human injury and death
* Language - Mild to moderate use of profanity
* Lyrics - Mild references to profanity, sexuality, violence, alcohol or drug use in music
* Mature Humor - Depictions or dialogue involving "adult" humor, including sexual references
* Nudity - Graphic or prolonged depictions of nudity
* Partial Nudity - Brief and/or mild depictions of nudity
* Real Gambling - Player can gamble, including betting or wagering real cash or currency
* Sexual Content - Non-explicit depictions of sexual behavior, possibly including partial nudity
* Sexual Themes - References to sex or sexuality
* Sexual Violence - Depictions of rape or other violent sexual acts
* Simulated Gambling - Player can gamble without betting or wagering real cash or currency
* Strong Language - Explicit and/or frequent use of profanity
* Strong Lyrics - Explicit and/or frequent references to profanity, sex, violence, alcohol or drug use in music
* Strong Sexual Content - Explicit and/or frequent depictions of sexual behavior, possibly including nudity
* Suggestive Themes - Mild provocative references or materials
* Tobacco Reference - Reference to and/or images of tobacco products
* Use of Drugs - The consumption or use of illegal drugs
* Use of Alcohol - The consumption of alcoholic beverages
* Use of Tobacco - The consumption of tobacco products
* Violence - Scenes involving aggressive conflict. May contain bloodless dismemberment
* Violent References - References to violent acts

Please refrain from saying I or anybody else was warned about the language when purchasing the game. It is a bald face lie and I tire of you perpetuating it endlessly.

Here once again for the umpteen time I post my game USRB rating descriptor located on the back of the box.

You can try to photoshop in the words Crude Humor and Strong Language to try prove your point I guess, but so far nobody has produced a box with said ratings. The rating descriptor only says "Violence" .... nothing more, nothing less.

Here is the Rating and descriptor that was on the back of my Factions box..

Notice this time Anet added a few descriptions, but again you will NOT find Crude Humor and Strong Language as pertaining to game play whatsoever. It just doesn't exist. Period.

I do not have a Nightfall box, I purchased electronically, so I can not offer a photo of it, but it would be interesting to see what it was rated on the back of the box with the descriptors for discussion sake.

One can say I signed those rights away with the terms of use when I started playing, but Here is the terms of use I took when I started playing.... Using the way back machine...

http://us.ncsoft.com/en/legal/user-a...f-conduct.html

I will quote...

"You may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, racially or ethnically offensive language."

/end quote

This was rule number 3.

Yes, I know ANET changes things constantly... they even added a filter, but nowhere was it stated on the box about the language problem and the rules of conduct at the time were in compliance with what the box stated.

kedde · Apr 20, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Welcome to a world of hipocrisy.

Red Sonya · Apr 20, 2009, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

NC Interactive reserves the right to enforce anything at its sole discretion.

As I said before Anet reserves the right to be judge and jury and nothing you can say can stop them Fitz. All you are doing is beating your head against a brick wall and showing your "I" while doing so. But, let him rant folks it's his opinion and nothing else and we all know about opinions. Everyone has one and nobody else cares about it. lol